#60: Listener Mail - Pro-Life Atheists, Auditing Pro-Life Internet Commenter
Download | Duration: 00:38:43
The Life Report team responds to listener emails that have been piling up lately.
Quick note from Josh: When I was listening back to this, I noticed that in my advice to internet commenter Paul, I kind of made it sound like when I tell abortion advocates I'm open-minded to their views, that I'm just using fake talking points. I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I TRULY AM open-minded in conversations like this. I've actually altered my views on several facets of the abortion issue since getting into pro-life activism. Don't just say you're open minded if you don't mean it and are just trying to lull the other person into a false sense of security. Either actually be open minded, or don't say anything about being open minded at all.
Listener Mail Questions:
- "Is Randy Alcorn out of line when he implies in his book that it's surprising when some atheists become pro-life?"
- "Can you audit my internet debating skills on abortion?"
Click here to download the bloopers from recording this one episode! (MP3)
Since it was brought up...
Weekly Segments:
- Pro-Life 101: "Against Abortion? Don't Have One."
- Link of the Week: Science Matters #4: Sight restored WITHIN WEEKS with Adult Stem Cell contacts!
Download Josh's Bio/Vitae here if you're interested in having him speak for your group.
Tell us what you think!
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I appreciate that you are willing to acknowledge and welcome pro-life atheists. However, I still found this segment kind of insulting. You seem to think that morality = Christianity, and that if non-Christians take what you consider to be a moral stance it's because they have absorbed Christian morality from the culture. That's pretty disparaging to non-Christians, really, though I realize that wasn't your intention.
I also don't think that you are well-versed in secular philosophy if you're claiming that atheists can't ground their arguments for human rights. I can't believe that you don't find atheist arguments *satisfying*, but that doesn't make them invalid.
All that said, I do think that you're trying to be open-minded and listen to opposing views, so I hope that you will take this comment in the spirit it was intended. And if you have any questions about pro-life atheist thought, I might be able to help with that.
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er... that should be "I can believe you don't find atheist arguments satisfying," of course.
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Hey Jen! Thanks so much for being willing to share your thoughts while giving us the benefit of the doubt.
Couple thoughts, hopefully that will lead to a good discussion here, as you're right, I'm very open-minded on this. I've said things before I regretted later!
I don't think morality = Christianity. I think there are many atheists that act more "moral" than many religious people. My doubt is that atheists can GROUND that morality, without appealing to a moral law giver. Once again, I may be wrong though! I haven't heard one before.
Now, Carrie brought in helping the homeless which I wouldn't have done. (In fact, we just recorded a listener mail show where someone made the good point that atheists could find strong reasons to help the homeless, but perhaps not the unborn. I'd rather focus on the unborn.)
I was a part of a pro-life think tank on how pro-life activists (usually Christian protestants or Catholics in my personal experience) should respond when someone calls us "speciesist." The pro-choicer might say, "why do you think humans are more valuable than animals in the first place?"
A few people threw out ideas that humans are "moral creatures," and that sets us apart, but I didn't find that very convincing, because there are some animals that seem to behave in at least rudimentary moral ways. (Why is a golden retriever so loyal to his master that he would die protecting him?)
I think the only answer that really made sense was, "I believe human beings are created in God's image, giving us inherent value that animals don't have. Now, you may disagree with my religion, but that's where my belief is coming from. Why do you think humans are inherently valuable?"
If you have an alternate argument for grounding human rights without religion, I would LOVE to hear it! There are a lot of times I want to keep religion out of the discussion because some atheists will simply walk away from me as soon as they find out I'm one of those idiots that believes in a higher power.
So Jen, if a fellow atheist who was pro-choice asked you, "why are humans valuable in the first place," how would you respond?
Thanks again for starting this dialogue!
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